Challenge to the Democrats
Oct 30 at 5:05pm by Macranger
If the Democrats had a clue of how the law works they wouldn’t be asking Mike Mukasey to call a interrogation technique “illegal” when in fact there is no law against it.
“Attorney general nominee Michael B. Mukasey told Senate Democrats today that a kind of simulated drowning known as waterboarding is “repugnant,” but he does not know whether the interrogation technique violates U.S. laws against torture.
Mukasey, whose nomination to replace Alberto R. Gonzales has become less certain because of his refusal to offer an opinion on waterboarding, also wrote in a letter to Democrats on the Senate Judiciary Committee that he did not know if U.S. interrogators had used waterboarding because he is not cleared to receive classified information.
But, in reiterating earlier promises to the committee, Mukasey pledged to study the issue if confirmed and to reverse any legal opinions by the Justice Department that violate the Constitution or U.S. law.
“If, after such a review, I determine that any technique is unlawful, I will not hesitate to so advise the president and will rescind or correct any legal opinion of the Department of Justice that supports the use of the technique,” Mukasey wrote.
But by continuing to resist invitations to declare waterboarding illegal, Mukasey seems certain to heighten tensions between the administration and congressional Democrats, many of whom have said their votes hinge on whether the former federal judge agrees that waterboarding constitutes torture.
Every major Democratic presidential candidate in the Senate has announced that he or she will vote against Mukasey because of his position on waterboarding.”
Idiots. Little wonder while their majority wheels are coming off. Keep it up and the GOP will get it back without so much as a press release.
In any case here is the challenge. If Congressional Democrats feel so strongly about the issue of waterboarding then they should pass a law that bans it. Then there would be no question about the practice. Of course it would also outlaw it in our military training facilities, thus “wussifying” our guys and gals duty.
Nevetheless, here is a chance for them to really make a stand and PROVE how they feel and that they are not just showboating for the cameras.
Do it, I dare you.
6 Responses for "Challenge to the Democrats"
LeftForMe
October 31st, 2007 at 7:48 am
1We already have laws against torture (for instance see the federal anti-torture statue, 18 U.S.C. ยง 2340A). The issue is whether or not waterboarding or simulated drowning constitutes torture. Historically it has been deemed such, but the administration seems to want to argue that it is not torture.
As for training facilities, that would be a voluntary activity so I don’t really think that’s what’s at issue here.
jay k.
October 31st, 2007 at 9:58 am
2this is the extreme right playing semantic word games again in order to move the goal posts. torture is illegal. waterboarding has always been considered torture. thus waterbarding is illegal. the extreme right, including the white house, may chose to define it differently, but that does not change anything. waterboarding was off limits in vietnam and people who did it were court-martialed. mccain calls it “exquisite torture”, and wants it out-lawed. in 1901 a major got 10 years hard-labor for waterboarding a phillipino insurgent. on sept. 28th, 2006 all but one democrat voted to out-law it. unfortunately the republicans controlled congress then, and with only a razor thin majority now there is nothing the democrats can do unless some republicans are willing to do what they know is right for their country instead of what they think is right for their political party. i find it sad that the extreme right, including the white house, is so afraid of the middle-eastern boogie man that they are willing to give up on any and all moral convictions (not to mention civil rights) this nation may have once had. once our moral convictions and civil rights are gone what are we defending? the profits of corporations?
Macranger
October 31st, 2007 at 11:30 am
3Waterboarding has never been declared “illegal” as it is an established training tool used in land/nav warfare school that I not only graduated from , but taught from.
Waterboarding was NOT off limits in Vietnam and in fact was contained in appropriate regs at the time. The news reports of a soldier being “severely punished” in 1968, are false. It never happened.
Waterboarding was not extensively used but it was used and was effective incidently in saving the lives of american troops.
Again, if congress wants to outlaw it specifically then go ahead and do so, that’s the challenge.
jay k.
October 31st, 2007 at 12:27 pm
4you are correct, and i stand corrected. however in ‘47 we did find a japanese officer guilty of war crimes for using water-boarding on a u.s. citizens. like i said, until moderate republicans choose to come down on the side of moral conviction instead of a radical base, the dems are powerless - on a number of fronts. perhaps after 1.20.09 we can begin to repair the damage done by so-called conservatives who are afraid of their own shadow.
Macranger
October 31st, 2007 at 2:13 pm
5Jay,
It’s not a matter of “morality”, but of doing what is best for the greater good. Waterboarding, while not a fun experience - I experienced it - won’t kill a person. Flying jets into two buildings with 3000 persons does.
Again, the reason it has to be considered is back to the hypothetical. If one capture a family member of yours and threatened to kill them, and I knew exactly where and when, how far would you go to get that information?
A famous theologian once remarked, ‘The greatest morality is the complete eradication of the evil”.
The fact is that this whole waterboarding issue is a scare crow, it’s not used except in extreme circumstances and that is just about never.
It’s just another “fault” to throw at the administration. It has nothing to do with far right or left, it’s just about doing what needs to be done to keep us safe.
jay k.
November 1st, 2007 at 2:33 pm
6no…it’s really about the extreme far right being scared to bejesus of boogie men. your analogy of a captured family memebr is a false, or at the very least faulty, analogy and basing any policy on that is foolish. you say it’s used “just about never” but you don’t know that and past behavior of this administration does not begin to support that claim. and in terms of greater good…well…i think it was that so-called conservative boehner who said “…4000 lives is a small price to pay…”.
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